Wind farms will pay money to municipalities and residents affected by the park

Start of the interview here.

TPP currently uses gas. How difficult is it to convert them to hydrogen – do the systems need to be replaced in whole or in part?

We have renovated and maintain the TEC so that they are able to work with gas at least until 2040-2045. for the year. Currently, we no longer buy gas from Russia, but buy it from democratic countries.

The “green” course pays CO₂ rising allowance prices, and our main challenge for CHP right now is to be able to balance the costs of CHP so that CHCs are competitive with their costs despite the CO₂ quota price.

We are working with the TEC system manufacturer “General Electric” on various options for decarbonizing the TEC. It is already possible to replace part of the natural gas with biogas or hydrogen, but this is only a part that we can use in our TEC production.

The long-term plan is to reconstruct the TPP so that at least one of them is capable of working with hydrogen. These are quite large investments. The question is what the price of hydrogen will be, how cheaply we will be able to produce it. Primarily, we need to focus on the implementation of solar and wind energy projects, and then we will move towards the decarbonization of TPP.

Are there examples in the world where TPPs have been redirected or decarbonised?

Currently, as far as I know, Estonia is planning to build a TPP that will be able to work with both natural gas and hydrogen. Estonia has received co-financing from the European Union for this project. Let’s see how the neighbors do, and probably learn and see our options.

Will you produce hydrogen yourself or will you take it from Liepāja, where a big project promises to be built in the special economic zone (SEZ)?

We are currently looking at various options. If there are investors who have invested and will be able to start producing hydrogen sooner, and the price of this hydrogen will be competitive, then we can probably also consider the possibility of buying hydrogen from a specific producer. But in parallel, we are working on various hydrogen production projects.

Could “Latvenergo” produce its own hydrogen from its own wind and solar energy?

Yes.

I remember that long queues of wagons with peat and coal crowded at the TPP. What about hydrogen? Won’t there be a crowd of car tanks with hydrogen at the TPP? However, hydrogen is dangerous and if it explodes, it leaves a big hole.

Gone are the days of technology like you mentioned. Hydrogen can be transported through pipelines in a similar way to gas. Of course, the technical requirements are stricter there, but it is also possible to transport hydrogen in this way. So there are two ways – by pipelines and by cars.

Is it not dangerous to transport hydrogen with cars?

Hydrogen, like any gaseous substance, can be transported in compliance with the established safety requirements.

TEC with one car tank will not be enough even for a few hours.

These hydrogen projects are still in their infancy for us, and we will be able to talk in more detail after some time, when the technologies and volumes are already clear, in which way it can all be reoriented.

If energy becomes cheaper, how will investments in solar panel parks and wind farms pay off? Everyone wants to earn. How will it be possible to earn if energy becomes cheaper?

If we are talking about private ones, then I would say that we each have to think about how we can become energy efficient. My own house has been insulated, light bulbs have been changed. Electricity consumption is increasing due to the fact that we increase the level of comfort – we want to drive an electric car, cook and bake on an electric stove, produce heat with a heat pump, and all these elements are interconnected.

On the one hand, I would recommend saving, being energy efficient, on the other hand – to choose climate-neutral ways and not to drive a gasoline or diesel car, but to switch to an electric car. No matter how we live, we need to understand whether we will leave a greener, less climate-threatening Latvia and the world to our children, or whether we will continue to live in the old way.

We live green in Latvia, however, compared to such countries as, for example, India. Why should we be so concerned about green living?

We in Latvia really don’t feel these climate changes that much yet, and that is probably why we have a lot of resistance in society in general towards the same wind farms. We do not feel these changes on our skin. For example, in Spain there is a limit on the amount of water that can be used in a household. They have long forgotten about such extras as watering their gardens, because they do not actually have fresh water, drinking water, due to climate change. This is a huge problem. And not only in Spain.

So it’s nice that we’re green. It is important that each of us contribute this small amount to saving the environment, then the overall progress towards climate neutrality will also take place.

The state company you represent studies the public’s reaction to various projects while developing its business. We, as journalists, see that public concerns about the development and spread of wind farms are related to animals, birds, forest beasts, which may be traumatized by the frequencies emitted by the rotor. The second thing is a significant change in the landscape. The third thing is the flickering caused by the rotor blades. How do you see a solution to dispel these concerns in society?

We have to talk, tell, educate the public. To a large extent, all these concerns are based on ignorance and information obtained from the Internet, which often contains not quite verified facts. We are looking for and collecting evidence from countries where many wind turbines have been built. They already have long-term experience and knowledge of the real impact on the environment, birds and neighboring residents.

The concerns are largely emotional rather than fact-based. We are ordering various studies from foreign experts who will be able to confirm or deny these concerns. As I recall, recently there was a study in the public domain from Finland that the deer population and the bird population have shifted five kilometers from these turbines.

But what we keep forgetting to say is why animals and birds move to other areas, and it’s not just the fact that there’s a wind turbine and that’s why they move. The reason may be climate change. Bird species that did not exist before are appearing in Latvia, which lived in slightly warmer places. At the moment it is too warm for the birds and they migrate and move to our latitudes. I assume that it is the same with species that have constantly lived with us.

My prescription would be to explain, teach and of course evaluate each specific case in detail. We at “Latvijas vēja parkos” are also thinking about how to find this balance in order to preserve environmental values ​​and especially not to harm people in any way, and still be able to find a place for these turbines.

In fact, one of the basic ideas of the “Latvian wind parks” project “Latvijas valsts mežes” is to get away from people. Effects have been demonstrated in open areas where turbines with their shadows, the flickering effect that can extend very far in flat environments, have an environmental impact. In the forest, on the other hand, the trees absorb this flickering, and by nature this effect is much narrower in the radius around the turbine. This was also initially one of the reasons why we are implementing this project directly in forest areas – to create as little impact as possible.

As for the birds, on the one hand, it is a pity that we are only now building wind turbines and solar panel parks, and many European countries are already well ahead. But in these countries, all the mistakes have already been made, and we can now get technologically much better products. Currently, for birds, turbines are equipped with very sophisticated radar systems, where when birds approach, the turbine is stopped or its rotation speed is reduced, and birds, especially migratory birds, are completely protected.

As for solar panels, the first solar panels in Europe were installed more than ten years ago. Of course, their power per square meter cannot be compared with the power we get now. Technology has advanced and we are able to generate much more.

Think about it, the three turbines that we are planning in “Latvian wind parks” are equivalent to 30 turbines that are currently installed in Grobina. Whether we put 30 turbines or three turbines – the power generation is the same. So we’re able to generate a lot more with fewer locations, which I think is great.

The easiest way to calm people down would probably be to call someone Jānis or Pēteris, who lives near these turbines, to tell them what it’s really like there, what is the impact on the landscape, nature. Birds can also migrate away from wind farm sites because food has appeared in some other swamp – other frog species have evolved there. There can be many reasons why spears can break. Scientists will say one thing, but life is life, and people who live next to wind farms probably know the situation best.

That is what we are going to do. Currently, there is a plan to go to Grobiņa, the last Tārgale wind park, and ask the residents living there what their opinion is, whether life has changed in any way after the installation of these turbines.

There is an initiative, and we also support this initiative, it is the so-called comfort payment. The Ministry of Climate and Energy is pushing an initiative into the law that we, park developers, will be obliged to pay, indicatively, as written in the draft law, 2,000 euros per installed megawatt to the local government. 50% of this amount will remain with the municipality, while 50% will be distributed to the affected residents, i.e. residents who live closest to this wind farm.

In the Netherlands, the introduction of such compensation mechanisms in a sense stimulated the support of the local population for wind farms. It’s hard for me to say how it will be here in Latvia.

But does that sound like a lot of money?

Yes, that’s a lot of money that we as developers have to deal with. It is a tax in a sense. It is a good compromise with residents and municipalities. In this way, we can solve their essential needs – build a road or a kindergarten or a playground, or for a resident who lives near a wind turbine, replace windows, a roof or something else.

Could this also be an attraction for resourceful businessmen to now buy plots of land close to the turbines to be installed?

Residents accuse us that their plots of land, which will be close to our wind farms, will drop in value. But it’s such an emotional statement. We have studied how it is in general in the European Union. In fact, if the value of the property falls, it falls in the initial stage, but in general, industrial tourism is in vogue in Europe at the moment. People really like such industrial areas, nature trails, geocaching, etc.

A new industry for tourism in Latvia?

Yes, for rural tourism.

Tell us about your experience in home electrification. Does the house also have a heat pump?

Yes, I have fully electrified my house. My garden is watered with electricity. I have a heat pump, electric car, solar panels. And with my solar panels, I produce enough electricity to completely cover my consumption.

Can you reveal how much you invested in this electrification project?

I think it was 12,000 euros.

And how many years will it pay you back?

The question is how we calculate. In my calculation, I calculated what it would be like if I continued to drive a car with a regular gasoline engine and pay accordingly for gasoline. And if we transfer this gasoline money to the total calculation as well, then, according to initial calculations, this investment will pay off for me in 5-7 years.

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